[Music]
I'm George Galloway and I present Cal
Imahara on our my Dean television here
we are in London
I speak my words really either in
Parliament on television here on the
streets of London Cal Imahara means free
work - for ice cream - Cal Imahara in
the two-way conversation check it out on
our my Edina television welcome to Cali
Mahalo with me George Galloway on Al
mayadeen television coming to you from
London but discussing Sudan I'm so old I
was in her tomb on the day that
President Nomura was overthrown there
have been a few memories since I've seen
them come and go
the history of Sudan is one of
colonization and dictatorship but for
very brief
interregnum I interviewed the former
dictator General Bashir seven years ago
in Khartoum he promised me that he would
not under any circumstances stand for
re-election for a father term he
promptly broke that promise and then was
about to break it all over again and the
people of Sudan had had enough and they
rose up in a huge swelling of popular
democracy protest demands for the
military to deem it office and for the
people to attain power they succeeded
and Bashir is now in jail though I don't
know where his money is and neither do
the people of Sudan but he has been
replaced not by popular power but by a
military Transitional Council of which
one man is undoubtedly calling the shots
he's called general Hamden though nobody
knows how he got to be a general as he
has no military training he has his own
army argue according to the New York
Times 50,000 fighters
his own militia he's calling the shots
the uprising of the people of Sudan has
been drowned in blood at least for now
literally drowned in the Nile with well
over a hundred protesters moderate well
attested examples of rape being used as
a method of political terror brutality
torture all the usual paraphernalia of a
military crackdown the internet has been
switched off an internet which had been
key to the communications of the people
in the uprising the television news
never free is now heavily militarized
the media is under the control of the
men in khaki the question is on whose
behalf are the new junta operating what
are their intentions who is behind them
and will the demands for popular power
people power in Sudan succeed in
reviving itself and will the people be
able to realize the dream of popular
democracy I have an audience of
distinguished experts and one or two
enthusiastic amateurs like me so it's
time to turn to the distinguished
audience madam you have the floor good
evening I'm sorry Julian the president
of the Sudan doctors union in the UK I'm
here because as a Sudanese woman I'm
very proud of what the people of Sudan
have achieved in the non-violent
movement the peaceful resistance but as
a doctor who have been with my colleague
always at the frontline driving towards
change we have witnessed the casualties
the injuries and reported rape cases and
therefore we have been under a lot of
austerity measures ourself being shot
and killed and detained and arrested
like all other people in Sudan so the
question is and that's open for
discussion if the people of Sudan have
led
six months a peaceful resistance and
they avoided to be engaged in any army
conflict why we cannot overcome the TMC
the transition military council which is
a continuation of the same regime and
the militia that has actually should be
labeled as a terrorism group and why the
regional and international forces are
not supporting the peaceful resistance
to a change well maybe because they
don't want it to be catching in their
own countries how can countries
themselves ruled by brutal military
dictatorships possibly want people power
to come to power in Sudan that's the
answer isn't it I think to some extent
but they have to realize that this the
stability and the security in Sudan
which is situated in a very important
geopolitical area will have a positive
sort of influence I think that the the
the fight in Sudan is not just for
Sudanese people I think it's a global
fight for justice who else would like to
respond yes sir
my name is jihad madman and doctoral
researcher at the University of Exeter
and thank you very much for allowing me
to be part of this show
I'm here the capacity as a researcher
because I've been covering what's
happening in Sudan for a while and
that's how I got to know dr. Sarah and
what I realized is that there what's
happening in Sudan now is inspiring that
the number of this this movement is
activated again where you'll find
organizers in the streets by whole
protecting the neighborhoods and having
cojito with each other however what's
missing in this is I realized that
International Committee is not doing
enough to pressure regional countries in
the region to pressure the TNC to give
up power I'm touched by your faith and
what you call the international
community I'm touched
but I mean we have to use terminology
scorpion stings because it's a scorpion
the international community so-called
betrays the Sudanese Revolution because
of what it is because of what the
international community is and what the
Sudanese revolution is I do agree with
you but I am using terms that they told
me the air youth and academia
international use these things here
there as Tony Benn once said I realized
at one point during the Iraq war that I
knew one half of the international
community because the international
community was George Bush and Tony Blair
that I agree with you but when I'm
talking about forces within the National
Committee I'm talking about the US and
the UK needs to take a leadership role
in pressuring in Saudi Arabia Egypt and
the Emirates to force a TNC to give up
power
who are these regional actors you think
that are behind the TMC and the
resistance to democracy from what I can
see it's Emirates emerged is having a
heavy influence and it's like you see
Sudan is an historic huge populous
mighty country hmm the Emirates is a
petrol station with a flag and and and
and a yachting marina in Dubai
I can't accept because I know the
Sudanese people so well that they are
going to dance to attune dictated by by
a Bedouin Prince okay but then we have
to look at the country's interest the
problem with the UAE in these countries
is they don't understand if they give us
a civilian government power they're
actually going to get their interests
achieved I mean the UAE Egypt and solar
a bit of scared the Muslim brother would
come to power and that's why they're
resisting a civilian how about what it's
about you think fear of the Muslim
Brotherhood fear of the Muslim
Brotherhood and of course regional
influence their training if specially
the Emirates is trying it has its
regional influence
so if basically they need to understand
that the civilian government would
address this kind of concerns and
international community including the US
and Britain that they're concerned with
regards to terrorism where would be
resolved and immigration would be
resolved if they supporting States and
Britain are behind most terrorism in the
world you need to step out of academia
my friends let's take the lady behind
yours cheers oh hello good evening
oh good afternoon my name is Somerset
key I'm a visual artist and an activist
and a mother what I think about this
revolution to be honest with you I have
a kind of different view or perspective
from everyone else I've seen this
revolution from the beginning from 2013
since the start
I believe this revolution has started in
2013 and being stopping and going and
stopping and going until now but
unfortunately I've been watching Sudan
since 2003 where a lot of Sudanese
people did not know what was happening
in Darfur therefore there was a genocide
in Darfur and massacre of a lot of
people the government said that they
massacred these people because of
religion war and I don't think it's true
to be honest with you because I've been
doing a lot of research about Sudan
these same people now that massacred
people in Darfur are in Khartoum and
they are killing our people again and
the first time Sudanese people in
Khartoum and everywhere didn't know
about it because of media cuts of media
and then you know internet and news and
now again the world they know a little
bit about Sudan but a lot of people
don't know where Sudan is and who we are
but I believe the key lies in our hands
the people that who are in America in
the Sudanese that I mean in America in
Britain in Canada and I'm looking at the
problem with a different kind of
perspective everyone is looking at peace
and I believe in peace don't get me
wrong but I also believe that we need to
think ahead we need to think three four
steps ahead you know what if these
people doesn't stop killing our people
because we've seen the same thing before
in Darfur
so what if we can actually make a word
globing a warning warning to people and
we make it different from here obviously
the people incident they doing their
best to fight this regime but they can't
do anymore because I feel like when I
look at them they they're scared they're
lost a desperate they've been living in
this regime for so many years suffering
from economic problems in a country that
it doesn't make any sense because our
country is full of goods but these
people have destroyed their goods but I
believe there's hope there's always hope
only if to be honest we have the right
leaders so I don't know how to end this
but that's a good point to end it let's
take the gentleman to along from you yes
sir good evening my name is photodiode I
am a PhD students at Durham University
and I'm actually from Darfur region this
lady she's spoken about and I've
witnessed firsthand the atrocities
committed by the second man in command
now in the TMC
this hundin was a butcher of pi/4 I know
what they've committed firsthand since
2000 C up to now but unfortunately
really disappointing in 2015 when the EU
tried to do a deal with the Hamdan in
order to they call it they're gonna stop
Islamic smuggling a migrant from Horn of
Africa but they do know all the criminal
act that's being committed in therefore
by these guys and they do know there is
a restaurant from the ICC against over
Bashir and against his gender wit and
his militia which is the same guys but
he use a ten plan iron and they tried to
do it if they actually did a deal in
2015 and they support this guy by a lot
of money and they asked him to stop
migrant and we do know what they mean
when they said we're gonna stop my guys
because they're gonna treat them and
humanely and they do all the things that
they're gonna do but the human watch
they could use a very good report
condemning that agreement between the EU
and the committee and the genuine
militia but the EU government they try
to hide that one and I bet you a lot of
haven't heard about that agreement and
they didn't know what such agreement
about so this gentleman went to LA
speaking about the regional governments
trying to support it traditionally the
government I actually I think those
regional government they actually they
are they are doing work on behalf of
other peoples namely the Western
government because they really don't
need any stable civilian government in
Africa or anywhere else but I think
there's a nice will they will prevail
and they will get a stop all this I
would call it outside I in there and
we're gonna establish our civilian
government and civilian rule in Sudan
and we're gonna hope and build the
government that we can hope for let's
take a gentleman next year yes right
next to ya my name is pastor and I'm
director and telecom company the issue
we have is that we live in a dream I
think and especially in our countries
well we think that we are in control we
actually think our people think that
they've actually gained real
independence since the colonization left
our countries all of the Middle Eastern
Africa and I think that's one of the the
the biggest lies what happened is is the
colonization is is just still there
present but under different premises
mosques and mainly with proxies and that
explains the sort of the interference is
happening so when we ask now when we
talked about Egypt or rollover and why
the military council is touring around
you know the middlee is going to
Emirates or going to Saudi basically
this was like a instead of directly
talking to the United States so people
need to understand that the governments
in Sudan you know Sudan is X colonized
country when the British the British
left how America after the second world
world came to that region by the way of
military coups and and this is very
important to realize so the numeri
regime was actually pro-american but
people didn't realize so they raised all
these nationalistic you know views and
stuff and slogans but actually they're
not naturalistic and and the Bashir
regime is well raised the flag of Islam
and being the country but actually it
wasn't and underneath all the policies
were actually homogenized by the
international community and American
policies of the World Bank etc which led
Sudan to this dire situation and people
going out on the street
so to be able to fix that situation
people in that country or an age does
continue to get hold of their own
decisions and they need to really clear
all those people sitting at the top
where the military caocao or even
political parties anybody who is Christ
who comes with an imported you know
political agenda from outside should we
be rejected the people should decide for
themselves
[Applause]
it's mow and mortar I'm from South Sudan
political commentator from South Sudan
our separate country from what remains
of Sudan I'm here to show our sympathy
so she understands to the people of
Sudan one reason that South Sudan became
independent contrary to all the views
about international interference is
because the history of Sudan is full of
two things one is the militarism and
other things reactionary politics so
Sudan was dominated by very very
reactionary regimes that unfortunately
they only had ten years in terms of
civilian rule but the rest of the year
since independence 64 years ago had been
under military rule
contrary to what will be said about new
Marion Mary came up as a socialist
originally and then change colors as he
you remember well the reason South Sudan
for for independence is because it
failed to convince the successive
systems in the north that we need to
have a pluralistic society that can
accommodate different regions races
languages and so on completely
attractive that and this revolution is a
continuation of Sudanese tradition that
goes back many many decades there have
been three religions and this is the
third revolution in 1964 1985 and now
and the people's aspirations all this
time had been to create a new Sudan that
is pluralistic that can accommodate
everyone that is visionary that is
democratic and every time it has been
frustrated and this is what has happened
now so rather than blame other forces we
must blame the Sudanese leadership if
have total sympathy with all these boys
and girls that have been killed in the
streets and there's no blame for any
external force except the Sudanese
forces he made he done he mated
the litter you are talking about hundun
is the creation of the Sudanese system
is the creation of Bashir but she used
him to fight a proxy war against Darfur
with horrendous results against our own
people in Darfur 300,000 previously of
course there were similar wars in Sudan
in the South in the name of Islam and so
on we're two million resulting in to all
this disaster so tragedy continues to
this day
and the only hope for Sudan and
consequently for South Sudan as well is
the success of this revolution why are
the Arabs involved why is salary
interested simple story they have the
money and the series don't have money
they basically are paying for the slave
army to fight in Yemen and and that's
really the reason why they want to keep
him a leader that's why the reason that
this Baba
boron is there both of them are
productive for a war and they are being
paid directly by the side is to keep the
army there thank you thank you George my
name is Sarah Yousuf Ali I'm political
and social commentator issues happening
in East Africa and Middle East I have to
highlight something that may be of
interest to everybody here and those who
might have the chance to view it the
protest wasn't expecting the Jade
outcome they were simply after economic
reforms they want they were demanding an
end to the authorities the tripling of
the commodities prices they wanted an
end to abuse of authority political
repression they were after things like
the limitation of ATM withdrawals
they were also after things like
devaluation of their currency at the
time of these protests the inflation was
70 percentage high the country was
running out it is foreign currency
so the unexpected the unthinkable happen
when they saw they had a momentum the
demand is for economic reform shifted
and gingi to demand is for Beshear to
step down
I think he'd they achieve it but there
was a price to pay for that on the 3rd
of this month June the 3rd part of this
story was the Khartoum Aska hundred
people have been brutally killed by the
transitional military council militia
and the Janjaweed which everybody knows
the history there were 650 rape cases
that took place there were also the
people who have been murdered which are
believed to be above one hundred more
than hundred people full of them were
thrown into the Nile River I think a lot
hundreds of arrestees terrorizing
families all these were atrocities
carried out by the security men from
transitional military council and the
gen do it under the name of rabid
support forces I think this has to be
held accountable because in Africa the
problem we have somebody comes into a
situation carries out massacres and gets
away with it what is happening people
will say let us look the man Omar
al-bashir himself he came into the power
1989 a year after whether he was behind
it or didn't know it and some people
also blame hasanat Rabi Osama bin Laden
was invited into Sudan and soon after
that happened America got angry and they
listed Sudan put the name of Sudan into
the list of terrorist disposals
after 17 years of of of of a period
things changed during the brocco Obama's
regime the present of United States have
lifted the sanctions many elements of
the sanctions he also freed the assets
frozen by the United States and within
the same year 2017
came Trump in October he lifted the
remaining sanctions you can understand
from these two actions that Umar was
allowing himself policing the United
States in terms of meeting their foreign
policy agenda one of the things that
happened was there was a corruption
millions of dollars were found in his
own yard other was embattlement one
thing that has been mentioned by the
people who spoke before me that is
affecting all of us in the region is the
an endless intervention of the United
Arab Emirates in our regions they are
favoring the military to be empowered so
that they could use what my colleague
has described it is slave soldiers to
keep their fighters against the Houthis
in Yemen who knew the United Arab
Emirates would have a loom so large
there's much more of this after the
break
you
[Applause]
[Music]
you're watching calamara with me George
Galloway for Al mayadeen television
coming from London talking about the
Sudan earlier we took the kalam ahora
camera onto the streets of London to see
what the people thought let's take a
look do you think there are any external
motivations behind the unrest in Sudan
well I guess there's a couple I guess
some civilian unrest and then political
unrest there'd be an issue if the people
don't get their voices heard because
they're the ones ultimately who should
have to say in their country and I think
any complete in the world there is many
interests I mean there are always public
people around the world who you know
control everything we do I mean every
news standing now in doing this country
so it could be some it could be anyone I
think it is the military because they
are conflicting with the civilian I
believe there's a lot of external
activity happen in a lot of areas and I
believe that people who are being
confused by the rationality of the
government and the people sedan need to
take back their power and push out all
this external help that's coming from
maybe the superpowers
do you think the recent coup in Sudan
has anything to do with the standoff
between the US China other world powers
such as Saudi Arabia and so on I think
so I think so because if we look for the
Sudan Sudan has not enough power to men
to maintain the conflict for long years
so there is there is some powers behind
them behind the politics yeah I guess
Central Africa is a pretty unstable area
at the moment there's huge economic base
gains to get by getting a kind of a
foothold in the region it's probably one
of those things where it's not the
decisions aren't be made for the people
it's gotta be made with a economic
motive I think there is a lot of oil and
you know a lot of like a precious thing
that maybe other people want to get well
right now it's all about money and
central Africa is where the money's at
whoa should I say the resources and
control of the resources is control of
power and I believe all the super powers
are trying to do their best to get on
their hand to get their hands on it
first
it's first come first serve so
definitely definitely all right so it's
all basically because of the natural
resources that Sudan has so basically
America China Russia they they just
wanted to get those natural resources
and have it on their own
[Music]
some clever people on the streets of
London there yes let's take the
gentleman in the middle yes good evening
my name is Sudhir Gosselin I'm a member
of the popular cultures in Sudan I
totally agree with the brother from
South Sudan and the brother there who
said our elements of the of our
political system some of them are
proxies for from from outside I would
say our whole political system is being
created by the same power that colonized
Sudan before before they left they make
sure that they have their leaders that
we have the same political setup and we
never have the chance to sit down and do
our own social economic political
settlement the last regime just
developed what he got from all the
regimes
the war in Darfur didn't broke during
the Omar Bashir only that's a lie
because this system has been going on
since the 60s some of our political
parties were arming tribes in there for
openly and that's been known for for so
long
or Basile develop the system develop
this social development and he used
these people to fight against the
uprising that's calling for an adjust
federal system in the center and what
we're seeing now let me tell you
something the same day the the army came
to aside themselves with the revolution
with the uprising in Sudan which is the
11th of April the same day five of the
political leaders of the so-called
freedom and change were summoned to Abu
Dhabi to do what to do it one of them
came out of that meeting he wrote very
clear there is now a regional power that
have no interest in democracy
in the region but this way this region
bar have a very clear mandate against
the political Islam and we are the
leaders should align ourselves without
any reservation with that regional power
unfortunately he is my friend is a very
close friend to mine and we we used
talking and I immediately I text him the
minute I wrote read what he wrote I text
him I can't believe you saying this he
said what's wrong with it I said
everything is wrong with it
you aligning with yourself with an
international or regional power against
your local national opponent how's that
democratic what are you talking about
you you are just another Procrit you
fighting for decades for something when
it came you don't have you don't want to
grab it you're going outside to seek
alliance with other people who have no
interest in your country who have no
interest in democracy you are just
another dictator you are just another
Bashir for me so what is happening now
we have to sit down and realize there is
a big social development in Sudan
happening in therefore happening in the
center the people who go out went out in
the street and this is this uprising is
the new generation this new generation
was was never there before why because
the old system didn't want the people to
have enough education and enough
knowledge and they kept us with two or
three University in the whole suit on
Sudan now there are like 10 tens of of
universities in Sudan and this is the
product the new product the new social
development if we don't address it
morally if we don't address it
politically and if we don't address it
wisely we're gonna go into a full-scale
civil war the same war we launched
against the South the same one we
launched before against Darfur it's just
being now centralizing
very interesting let's take a gentleman
in the front row thank you very much for
having me my name is Abdullah Herod the
president of Somali National Council I
would like to highlight some the you
know the key issues about Sudan and the
regional players we you know hearing
like all the time
Emirates involvement Saudi Arabia's
involvement you know and also a
malicious which is you know not under
the control of the government and we
don't know who they are who support them
financially so since the invasion of
Iraq we had a company called Blackwater
led by Eric brains and they the world
known since the the massacre of Tahrir
Square in Baghdad that's when they come
out since then they started organizing
lot of a political chaos in the region
and they most of the time trying to
integrate within the you know the
revolution is all within the government
so what is happening in Sudan is what
had happened in Somalia what we would
advise is number one to reorganize
yourselves rely on the Sudanese only
even if he is a dictator or non dictator
what is in between it is disastrous and
I'm sure they will pay the price if the
Sudanese people don't be aware of this
kind of involvement because the American
and Britain they especially America
launched war on democracy they are
playing and game to rule the whole world
to colonize the world in a very smart
way sending their spies to lead those
countries like what had what's happening
like Somalia at the moment what had
happened in Libya what's happening in
Iraq they creating problems look what
had happen in Syria they creating
problem and then they try to get way to
invade
those countries and to send their voice
to lead those nations this kind of
terrorism we are fighting Somalia you
had al-shabaab al-shabaab I know every
single leader in Al Shabaab where they
born how they started how they are who
supporting them who financially giving
this you know chemicals even Somali
government cannot have the license to
you know import those kind of chemicals
to create this kind of bombs so what we
are trying to you know I say it's like
whenever we had a more art through the
Arabia they cannot even put their hands
up if the America or Britain wants to
you know for them to do it so let's take
the lady here in the middle hi my name
is Ronnie and I am so then he's living
in UK in London I think I agree with
almost everyone in that what's happening
in in the region or in Africa has a and
into an international interference and
with regards to Sudan
I think they the direct evidence for
that is they Russia and China taking the
veto against UN involvement in taking
peace the gentleman here pointed out
about the massacre on the 3rd of June
and that was that that was something I
mean in in the social media alone
everyone almost everyone was was taking
interest in what's happening because
this is beyond beyond what what human
being could think about but then what we
found is that Russia and China they just
waited out this this decision that the
UN could get involved so I think III
totally agree that the the international
interference is what's going on and the
way for the international interference
is that they have to have someone who
whom they can you know can can move
around and if if the people took over
that's what we want
in Sudan is a civilian government then
that would be the people's wish and that
again is the international interest and
this is why then do you have faith in
the United Nations why do we have what
would be good about United Nations
involvement in Sudan well for the time
being I think what we clearly fighting
now is they the United Arab and the
Saudi Arabia and Egypt would these
countries have direct involvement so
clearly we don't want these involvement
the UN they have even if it's decision a
pressure from the UN someone
collectively they should have a
something against those countries so
what's happening now it's the people
there there is an equal forces it's the
people against a transitional military
council with the zhengzhou eight who are
there giving extreme they're using life
emissions they're doing what they're
doing is horrific
so people alone could not really fight
them okay let's take a gentleman at the
front my name is tuwana Youssef I'm TV
presenter and also I represent akashi an
organization I'll not say two thing is
my brothers of Sudan Somalia had almost
30 years of division we had a foreign
intervention including United States
United State came to Somalia 1992 and
left with empty hands and and civilian
days more than 10,000 somali mogadishu
particular
and the Arabs have been intervening in
our country nothing they have done so I
would like to warn all Sudanese people
those who live abroad and those who live
inside the country unless you sit
together and work together nobody is
gonna help you don't think international
community has anything to do has
anything to do whether they have a piece
or not if you have anything anymore
get involved now don't let any people to
take care of your country and if you
don't do this you will end up like some
other and and and never let anybody
never let anybody to interview a country
like us we talked about Saudi Arabia we
talked about Emirates unless you allow
them to get involved they won't be able
to come we don't we don't get involved
in Saudia politics or or their life how
could the yes let's take the lady behind
you yes ma'am
hello good afternoon my name is Sarah
Sarah Muhammad lived in London so just
very simplest with the Sudanese people I
could feel the pain we went go through
I'm from Somalia originally so well I
was just trying to sighs the
international don't expect the
international to sort your problems
first of all other thing is they have to
think about it what kind of democracy do
you want because when you say democracy
and Western it's different the one in
Africa actually so they could say
something democracy and it will end up
something different they don't people
don't wish that happens here to other
thing is do they trust the different
groups of opposition right now the
people of Sudan is dead
can they trust those people to come
together and talk and find our way
forward to build a civilian government
that is the main question actually
because now your position and yeah they
want to do this and that when they won
they come to the government it could be
different and it could be outside
players so can influence but they have
to think and really can they do this
gentlemen are right at the back
hello mister gallery and thank you for
having me my name is a man Osmond I'm
medical doctor
I would like to disagree was two of the
gentlemen here the gentleman in the
front has said that the demonstrations
started because of austerity measures
and I would like to say this is may
partly be true but the opposition to
this government has been going since
their military coup in June 1989 of
people died including an arc I remember
dr. holliford all from the Sudan doctors
union and 28th of Ramadan where a lot of
people and generals from the military
died including shahida abdomen in Khmer
is going on all the people who battled
the previous government going through
there for war and to demonstration is
2013 so this been a battle and
unfortunately the international
community again has failed us because
they would only support in the previous
government because they had interests in
that government I would like also to say
to the gentleman there that yes we were
an X colonies but I don't believe that
we are still controlled by big countries
like USA UK if we want to progress we
can do that USA as you always like to
say mister gallery that they don't have
to control the crime rate in in
Manhattan so if we are strong we will
win yes there is a lot of pressure
coming from UAE KSA and Egypt this is
fighting by proxy for America and
which were controlled by the Zionists so
it is it is a big big game well you call
it pressure but what you really mean is
money money yes so because the United
Arab Emirates has no power to give
pressure they only have money to bribe
people the gentleman at the front
my name's Taryn basri pleased to quite
twist and a member labour party
listening to people's views here and
stories is very evident what the answer
is
the people of themselves have to solve
their problem however I'm not into
conspiracy theories but it's quite
evident that external powers since the
fall of the Ottoman Empire we've had
constant conflicts in North Africa Horn
of Africa Middle East it's almost as if
the outside powers are causing constant
conflict there and I think that change
will not come until change comes within
the colonial countries the colonists to
begin with we see it in Brazil where
they can quite openly
change your government will most most of
the wealth of Africa is actually outside
of Africa and that should be for the
people of Africa Africa Africa is still
colonized but it's done economically
sure I must say I strongly disagree with
that if you wait for change in the
colonizing countries you'll wait for
back to my scorpion analogy there will
always be scorpions in the imperialist
countries but it's within the power of
the people of Africa to take control of
their own destiny and there are
countries in the world I'd give you one
Cuba for example which rose and
overthrew colonialism and has maintained
its independence in the teeth of all
efforts to destroy it for well over half
but that was with the support of Russia
yeah so answers you know Sudan people
can look abroad for support but there
when when the Soviet Union collapsed
Cuba did not collapse because the Cuban
people themselves had been
revolutionized but you if you're going
to call it a revolution it has to really
be a revolution not just using these
kind of words who hasn't spoken and
wants to general at the end some some
disagreement with that the the history
of socialism really goes back to the to
the the modern history social gospel
goes back to the Russian Revolution and
and the aspiration of the Russian
Revolution was was a world revolution
and the aspiration for world revolution
really does mean that you can't kill the
monster anywhere except at its head so
it is the working class of the United
States and Britain and France that that
must do the task of defeating
imperialism you can you can the single
dominant global hegemonic imperialism is
the United States of America it rules
the entire world if it's army as bigger
its Navy as bigger that is the enemy of
all mankind that is the central enemy of
all mark what he does in Africa it uses
its proxies for instance South Sudan
well quite quite why did they did the
the conflict began and South Sudan it
because South Sudan has the oil isn't it
it's oil right the conflict is about oil
and and you in Rwanda well what was the
conflict about well now in Rwanda they
speak English and no longer French a
victory for the United States of America
you would say the United States is
moving into into Africa and it's moving
into Africa and its funding it's it's
it's its proxy forces
go behind I'm Aaron Mossman I'm an
a-level student and I'm also Sudanese I
think I agree with most of the points
that have been brought by other people
in the sense that the Sudanese people
need to be the ones that like provides
the change it's not we can't rely on
outside forces because they don't know
what um they don't know what it's like
to live in sedan and what we need we the
culture and Suzanne is so much different
and you can go anywhere anytime and sit
down and ask anyone for anything that
you need and they will give it to you
straight away because they are kind and
caring and I commend everyone in Sudan
for keeping the protest peaceful despite
violent action taken upon them but in
regards to your question from earlier
why do we have faith in the UN we still
need support from outside outside forces
to say what's going on is wrong we don't
need them to change it for us we just
need other people to condemn it I'm just
trying to stop any tendency towards
believing that that will happen and
you're right to demand it you have a
right to it without demanding it it
won't come regardless of whether it
comes or not you need to demand it
demanding it is fine and appeal to the
people I just I just make the point I'm
passed on before the last comment I'm
afraid the people of Iran overthrew the
mighty Shah and for 40 years have
maintained a revolutionary country in
control of its own affairs it is
possible to do it but you have to be
determined to do it and you have to be
smart enough to do it last speaker the
gentleman in the brown jacket go ahead
sir right so yes talking about this and
United Nations I think the starkest
example we have is Palestine how many
orders have been taken out nothing has
been implemented on the ground coming to
Sudan I think that there's an important
point I want to address is because we're
sitting here in a platform in a media in
a western media we're not on the ground
I need to talk about the topic on the
ground there is a real problem the
problem is if you want to walk out of
such a situation dire situation is there
needs to be a United
front leadership with a certain mindset
and that unfortunately is not available
and the problem we have is the heritage
of the Sudanese people for example there
are you know mostly at least talking
about the North's Arab Muslim etc now
the issue is this government
specifically which was in place the
previous one which is a military council
to return to preserve and has links to
is you know they called so Islamic sort
of government they call her which is the
heritage of that of the people of the
country and a lot of people got fooled
and they believed them and that was a
problem and they gave the worst example
ever about this great religion called
Islam I mean the same what we solve like
Isis example all of that and then is a
big issue that's why we now have a lot
of people is recording for let's have
complete secularism if you're if you've
got nothing to do Islam I don't want to
talk to you and there is communist
people as well and there is people from
you know siding by the military so you
have all these different factions how
are you gonna unite all those people and
have one and this is what I wanted to
point people's attention this is a trick
in the media which is this dilemma you
know they say George do you want tea or
coffee well I like chocolate isn't your
third option and then when they went to
you know when when Blair Bush wanted to
go to Iraq they would say do you want
Saddam stay on the stump or do you want
Americans to help you what isn't there a
third option why don't the people take
their own hands things into their own
hands so the same thing is being told
now in Sudan they're saying to them do
you want to remain with the hypocrite
Islamic you know you know party and the
military or do you want you know bless
get help from the outside well why is
these two only options there should be a
third option which is we need to go back
to our heritage and this heritage that
has been smeared which is what they call
Islamic and this and Isis a peep we as
Muslims deeply know it and we know what
our Prophet Mohammed did in names of
Islam of real justice we have a heritage
we have a complete system that can solve
our problems nothing to do with
hypocrites or injustice or anything and
that's what we need to go in search for
well done unfortunately because we could
have kept us going literally all night
but we've run out of time I'm going to
close the debate now and thank you all
for participating and this is an
argument that will run and run I've been
George Galloway this has been Callum
ahora on Al mayadeen
thank you
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